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[Josie Brown]: Hey everyone, welcome to Episode 7 of the podcast.
[Josie]: As you know, in each episode, we've been going chapter to chapter from the textbook Interpersonal Communication: A Mindful Approach to Relationships, written by Jason Wrench, et al.
[Josie]: in 2025.
[Melanie Vogel]: Last episode, we learned about conflict and relationships with Sydney and Aiden, who focused on the show A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, and the artist Gregory Alan Isakov.
[Melanie]: This episode will focus on Chapter 11 from the textbook, which is Marriage and Family Relationships.
[Melanie]: I'm Melanie, joined today by my co-hosts,
[Josie]: Josie.
[Collin Richardson]: And I'm Collin.
[Josie]: We'll be talking about family and marriage through the lens of a couple of different TV shows in this episode.
[Josie]: The show that I'll be talking about is Arrested Development, which was created by Michael Hurwitz.
[Josie]: It aired in the early 2000s for three seasons before being canceled.
[Josie]: It has been rebooted since then, but everyone kind of ignores the later seasons because they're just not as good.
[Josie]: But the show follows the Bluth family as they fall into disarray and sort of lose all their money.
[Josie]: So it's kind of a perfect show to talk about marriage and family relationships.
[Josie]: They go through a lot in this show and, you know, to be able to see,
[Josie]: see how they communicate, see kind of what it means to them is very interesting.
[Josie]: Michael Bluth is who I'm going to be talking about the most.
[Josie]: He's the main character.
[Josie]: He has an older brother named Job, a twin sister named Lindsay, and a younger brother named Buster.
[Josie]: And I'll explain any of the others as we go.
[Josie]: This is definitely one of my favorite shows ever.
[Josie]: So, I'm super excited to break it down a little bit today.
[Melanie]: That's so fun.
[Melanie]: I will say learning about your show during this project has been so cool.
[Melanie]: And I might have to check it out if I ever have time.
[Josie]: Absolutely. It's so worth it.
[Melanie]: But my show, [laughing] my show I am super jazzed to talk about is Bob's Burgers, created by Loren Bouchard.
[Melanie]: It is an animated sitcom style show that focuses on the Belcher family through the chaotic life that they lead.
[Melanie]: Bob and Linda are the dad and the mom of the family, followed by the oldest being Tina, kind of boy obsessed-aged.
[Melanie]: And then we have Gene is the second oldest.
[Melanie]: He's obsessed with music.
[Melanie]: And then you've got Louise, who is truly a father's daughter.
[Melanie]: And we'll probably talk a little bit more about them in the future in this podcast.
[Melanie]: But they are definitely very similar when it comes to certain things.
[Melanie]: And I can't wait to talk to you guys about that.
[Melanie]: Anyone that has ever seen a glimpse of Bob's Burgers knows absolutely how like, hilarious it is.
[Melanie]: And I think that's one of my favorite things about it is it's not...
[Melanie]: It doesn't take a lot of mental energy to watch.
[Melanie]: It's super like...
[Melanie]: easy. And it's something that's nice, it's a good brain break I feel like, um, but they're just I love that they're chaotic without being toxic.
[Melanie]: I think that's so like, in media I feel like it's one of the more common things is that they love to make these chaotic families but they also hate each other.
[Melanie]: Like sure, maybe they have some like glimmering moments of hope but like I think one of the cool parts about it is how
[Melanie]: united they are, still, and how much they love each other without necessarily saying it every time. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: But they're not like, mean to each other. Just as a comfort show like Bob's Burgers [Josie]: No, absolutely.
[Melanie]: They, ugh, I just love that show so much. [Josie]: I get that!
[Collin]: And I'll be talking about One Piece. One Piece is a long, ongoing anime and manga series created by Eiichiro Oda.
[Collin]: And it follows the protagonist Monkey D. Luffy, a young tenacious pirate with rubber powers, as he and his diverse crew explore a massive world in search of the legendary treasure, the One Piece.
[Josie]: First, let's talk about what a family is.
[Josie]: Wrench et al.
[Josie]: described a family as "two or more persons joined by ties of marriage, blood, or adoption, interacting and communicating with each other and their respective social roles, and creating and maintaining a common culture."
[Josie]: This is a very long definition, so I would definitely just use this as a jumping off point.
[Josie]: Family can really mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people, so just choose what you want, but you can use this if you're ever confused.
[Melanie]: Yeah, to just kind of talk about that too, like what we were talking about before, like family looks very different even in all three of our shows. [Josie]: Absolutely.
[Melanie]: So like we have chosen family, we have, like, family that can give you a headache and kind of tend to hurt you more than they help you.
[Melanie]: And then we have the like, chaotic but loving family. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: So they all have kind of a different aspect.
[Melanie]: So even none of them fit into the...
[Melanie]: mold necessarily. [Josie]: yeah entirely. [Melanie]: what a family can mean, text-book wise. [Josie]: yeah
[Melanie]: All righty, moving into kind of a specific type of family we have protective families which is characterized by high levels of socio-orientation
[Melanie]: and low levels of concept orientation and these families are a strong emphasis on child obedience and family harmony according to Wrench, et al. from our textbook.
[Melanie]: The entire family from Bob's Burgers is truly, like, a ride-or-die type of family.
[Melanie]: They truly, like, don't get me wrong.
[Melanie]: They have their spats.
[Melanie]: They hate each other at some points.
[Melanie]: Like, they have those moments.
[Melanie]: But if someone hurts one of them it's like, oh, we hate them and we will get revenge, um, they're not like seeking revenge but if the opportunity presents itself, they love to take it.
[Josie]: Yeah absolutely. [Melanie]: [laughing] So, there are some funny moments in the show where you see like, when Louise gets her bunny ears stolen, these. They like
[Melanie]: get revenge on Logan's family and they use this biker gang they have an attachment to [laughing], which it's a really [laughing], it's a really strange example but like just the fact that
[Melanie]: they were all like, no, his whole family sucks because they did this to you.
[Melanie]: And like, I don't know, the moms are beefing. And the dad's like, "They're dead to us."
[Josie]: Like they're dead to us. [Melanie]: Yeah, literally.
[Melanie]: So it's just super cool to see that even like, if they were having disagreement or a argument, that they're still able to kind of come together and be each other's like, true ride or die support.
[Josie]: Yeah, absolutely.
[Melanie]: Yeah.
[Collin]: Part of Luffy's crew is a character named Sanji, and he is from royal blood, and his father demands absolute conformity with his militaristic ideals.
[Collin]: While Sanji and his siblings were in his mother's womb, they genetically modified
[Collin]: them to, like, be super, to have superpowers.
[Collin]: And because of that, Sanji didn't come out right.
[Collin]: And he's actually probably one of the only good ones.
[Collin]: And because of that, he pretty much locked Sanji away until he left.
[Collin]: Like, he ran away when he was eight.
[Josie]: My gosh. [laughing]
[Collin]: [laughing] And his dad didn't care.
[Collin]: And he only cared when he wanted to do an arranged marriage with another pirate crew and marry him off for power, pretty much.
[Collin]: And still, like, outright demanding conformity from some, from a kid he pretty much threw away, and it's kind of messed up.
[Josie]: Yeah, that's crazy.
[Melanie]: Yep, that's insane.
[Melanie]: That doesn't feel like they have a lot of openness in that family system, which is another topic from our textbook.
[Melanie]: If, Collin, you want to give us a definition?
[Collin]: Yeah, Wrench, et al., wrote, "Major characteristics of systems and openness.
[Collin]: The term openness refers to how permissive system boundaries are to their external environment."
[Josie]: For me, the Bluth family is not open at all, which is definitely a huge reason why their family system is just so flawed.
[Josie]: They have very clear rules in their family that everyone just has to follow.
[Josie]: And another part of the definition, Wrench et al.
[Josie]: also wrote that "Children who are reared in highly isolated family systems often have problems interacting with other children when they come into contact with them in the external environment."
[Josie]: There are a few flashbacks to when the Bluth children were younger, and this very clearly shows them being
[Josie]: so awkward with other people. There's a few where Michael is running for class president in high school, and you find out that he only received
[Josie]: two percent of the votes from the school because he did not have any friends he was so awkward.
[Josie]: Part of this is because of the rigid boundaries that George senior, who's his father, placed on him so that was definitely really bad.
[Collin]: Going on to something better for One Piece.
[Collin]: When Ace was a little kid, we don't know what's up with his mom, but we know his dad is part of the Revolutionary Army and is busy with that.
[Collin]: So he was left with his grandpa, but his grandpa is a Marine Admiral, a Vice Admiral specifically, and is busy working with that too.
[Collin]: So he kind of just leaves Luffy with mountain bandits on this island.
[Collin]: It's not bad.
[Collin]: They take care of him, because apparently his grandpa knows them well.
[Collin]: But, um, there's also a boy named Ace there that they're taking care of.
[Collin]: And they kinda form, Ace and Luffy kind of form a familial bond.
[Collin]: And...
[Collin]: They also find Sabo.
[Collin]: Sabo is a runaway from a rich family because he doesn't like being rich.
[Collin]: There's a little more to it, but I'm trying to...
[Collin]: It's just a fast example.
[Collin]: And then the leader of the mountain bandits is called Dadan.
[Collin]: And she's kind of like the mom to the boys at that point.
[Collin]: And she... Although she's very resistant and implying that
[Collin]: the boys have to, like, work for their own meals and all this other stuff.
[Collin]: She kind of does give them a safe space to provide what the kids need, openness to share their dreams, goals, and fears with each other.
[Collin]: And she kind of does grow close with the boys and is actually really kind of wholesome.
[Melanie]: Yeah, very cool.
[Melanie]: Yeah.
[Josie]: All right, moving on to some sibling relationships here.
[Josie]: Wrench et al. wrote that "Effect intense sibling relationships are marked by both high levels of hostility and warmth.
[Josie]: These sibling relationships can be as nurturing as harmonious relationships and as dominating as hostile ones."
[Josie]: The Bluth family siblings definitely have this relationship type, because they can get along pretty well, but they definitely fight a lot as well.
[Josie]: My favorite example of this one is in the first season, Job has a girlfriend named Marta and you know, they're in love,
[Josie]: they love each other, but Michael falls in love with Marta and then Marta falls in love with Michael.
[Josie]: Marta is a Spanish daytime opera star and so she speaks Spanish and she's talking to her mom on the phone
[Josie]: and Job is listening to the conversation and he hears Marta say she's in love with Hermano.
[Josie]: And Job is like, I have to find this Hermano guy and I have to beat him up.
[Josie]: And he tells Michael about it.
[Josie]: He's like, Michael, Marta is in love with Hermano.
[Josie]: She's cheating on me. Michael is so mad because
[Josie]: at one of the points, Michael literally says to Job something like, well, she should be with at least one of us.
[Josie]: Like, it's so funny.
[Josie]: This whole time, Hermano obviously means brother in Spanish.
[Josie]: And so she's saying, the whole time she was saying, oh, like, mom, she was talking to her mom, like, mom, I'm in love with Job's brother, Michael.
[Josie]: And so, like, it's just this crazy thing.
[Josie]: That episode is so funny.
[Josie]: It's very confusing, but, you know, it's a very funny episode.
[Josie]: And it just shows, like, even though Michael obviously had...
[Josie]: ulterior motives with wanting to find this hermano guy, he still saw that Job was kind of in pain from this and he wanted to help his brother, [Melanie]: yeah
[Josie]: even though like he was the one causing the pain, which we find out at the end. But, it just kind of shows that they're there to bat for each other, they're, you know, also gonna fight with each other a lot kind of thing.
[Melanie]: Yeah. When you said that, [Josie]: [laughing]
[Melanie]: no one could see it, because this is a podcast, but my jaw was on the floor. [laughing] [Josie]: you had like a visceral reaction
[Melanie]: I was like oh my gosh! I was like, that was like, truly the definition of love triangle. [Josie]: Really, it was.
[Melanie]: No, but the Belcher siblings, thankfully they're a lot younger so they don't have that type of issue, [laughing] thank the lord. Um, but they do still get into their
[Melanie]: they do have their hostility situations, but they also have their warmth.
[Melanie]: A lot of times when the siblings are fighting, they can...
[Melanie]: It's really petty stuff.
[Melanie]: It's not, like, true, mean, like, oh, that was, like, really, really bad. They're just, like, petty.
[Melanie]: So maybe it's not even necessarily hostile.
[Melanie]: But there's so many situations where, like, Gene, for example...
[Melanie]: There was one episode. Gene is really in love with music.
[Melanie]: Everyone who knows this show, he has his little keyboard guitar. He loves music.
[Melanie]: And he's in a band. He starts a band.
[Melanie]: Now how this all starts is Gene, Louise, and Tina, the three Belcher siblings, are out on the sidewalk.
[Melanie]: And Gene's playing his keyboard on a stand.
[Melanie]: And the kids are, the girls are playing straws.
[Melanie]: [laughing] So they have straws in cups with, like, the lids, and they move it up and down. [Josie]: Oh, okay, okay.
[Melanie]: And it makes, like, a plastic sound. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: Um, I don't know any better way to describe that, [laughing] but they're doing that.
[Melanie]: And then some of their friends from school pass by, and they're like, oh, my gosh, like, you guys actually sound good.
[Melanie]: Like, we should do, make a band. You know every kid does this, I feel like. [Josie]: Literally every kid. Yeah.
[Melanie]: So they go, and they make a band, and they're practicing, whatever.
[Melanie]: But then they kick Gene out of the band.
[Josie]: Oh, no. [laughing]
[Melanie]: Like, Gene started the band, and they kicked him out of the band! And they're like yeah, you're just not like, good. [Josie]: Oh my God!
[Melanie]: The sisters were like well we're not going to be in a van that you kicked our brother out of so then they weren't in the band. So Kenny DeStefano,
[Melanie]: I think that's his name. But that's like the famous kid. He's like the most popular kids in school, and he, they, he wanted to book the band for the party. And so right before the party, they kicked him out.
[Melanie]: And they were like, you're just not good. Like, you know, whatever.
[Melanie]: And so then, Gene was so sad.
[Melanie]: He, like, literally gave up music. [Josie]: Aww...
[Melanie]: He was, like, never going to play music again.
[Melanie]: And the girls were like, we've got to get him out of this funk.
[Melanie]: And so they, he eventually got him to where he was playing back on the sidewalk.
[Melanie]: And, of course, the reconciliation.
[Melanie]: They go and they play the party and everyone makes up and it's fine.
[Melanie]: But, like, they were just so too bad, of like that was what they were going to do is they were going to get their brother to be happy again.
[Melanie]: And you can just so see it. And it's so sweet.
[Josie]: Oh, that's awesome. [Melanie]: It's so good.
[Melanie]: Moving on to kind of the concept of sharing in marriage.
[Melanie]: We have a definition from our textbook written by Wrench, et al.
[Melanie]: "Sharing involves discussing the effective or emotional health of each partner and the relationship while exhibiting nonverbal effective displays."
[Josie]: That feels a little confusing, so to break it down a tiny bit, it just kind of means you're sharing your life with your partner while also sharing,
[Josie]: you know, touches or smiles, just things that show, hey, I'm here, like we're here together, which is not what Tobias and Lindsay do at all.
[Josie]: So Lindsay, obviously, Michael Bluth's twin sister. [Josie]: and Tobias is the man that she marries in an act of youthful defiance, which is Tobias is a very emotional person. We don't know anything about his family, [Josie]: so we don't really know, we don't know why he is the way he is but, we know he's emotional, he was a therapist, he wants to be an actor, he's very comfortable showing more vulnerable parts of himself.
[Josie]: And Lindsay is not that way at all.
[Josie]: Her father, George Senior, was super emotionally absent when she was younger and even now.
[Josie]: He's now physically absent because he's in jail, for most of the first few seasons.
[Josie]: But um, [laughing] crazy lore drop there for you guys.
[Josie]: But just not a very good father to her.
[Josie]: And so she is constantly seeking reassurance
[Josie]: from people who don't want to give her reassurance, she only really goes for people who don't like her back.
[Josie]: Oh, they have an open marriage, which, you know, doesn't work, um, for them.
[Josie]: You know, maybe it works for some people, doesn't work for them, but...
[Josie]: And, you know, through most of the seasons, Lindsay is going out and she's very pretty.
[Josie]: She likes to dress really nice, wear makeup, do her hair.
[Josie]: She likes to go out and, you know, try to hit on guys, get hit on at the bar.
[Josie]: Doesn't work. It does not work at all.
[Josie]: She's not super in tune with what the vibe is I suppose.
[Josie]: And so it's really awkward. It's terrible.
[Josie]: And then you have Tobias, who is literally following her as she's doing these things.
[Josie]: There's one specific episode where
[Josie]: he, like, covers himself in this shimmery diamond paint, and there's a shimmery billboard behind him, and he hides on the billboard.
[Josie]: It's so cartoonish and stupid, and like [laughing], it's just. It's crazy.
[Josie]: And they don't display affection.
[Josie]: They're not affectionate towards each other. They genuinely do not like each other.
[Josie]: They talk about how they're together because their daughter, Maeby, [laughing]
[Josie]: Whose name, her name is Maeby.
[Melanie]: I still can't get over that. [laughing]
[Melanie]: Aww... You told me that and I was like, wait, what?
[Melanie]: That's like an actual legitimate name.
[Josie]: Her name's Maeby. [Melanie]: Her name's Maeby.
[Josie]: But, they're talking about how they want to stay together so that their daughter can grow up with, you know, maybe a more... they, they say it's a more stable environment, but it's not.
[Josie]: It's a really bad environment because Maeby knows that her parents, number one, are in an open relationship.
[Josie]: And number two, she knows that they don't really love each other.
[Josie]: They're just together, like, for no reason. [Melanie]: That's so sad.
[Josie]: Literally no reason. So it definitely affects her later on in the show as well.
[Josie]: They are terrible at sharing in their relationship.
[Josie]: They're terrible with affection and being emotionally in tune.
[Josie]: So it's... Like all around, it's just not good.
[Melanie]: Bob and Louise, as I spoke about, are emotionally closed off.
[Melanie]: So when they show emotion, the family really comes together to support them, which I really love.
[Melanie]: But also the way Linda is so in tune with Bob and how he feels.
[Melanie]: Because Linda is very extroverted, very loud, very like,
[Melanie]: all over it. And Bob is very reserved. He doesn't often raise his voice much, he's very monotone, it's like, "okay kids, please go wash the dishes," like, it's very like...
[Melanie]: super monotone. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: And so she's very in tune with how Bob is feeling, even though he doesn't really give her much to go off of.
[Melanie]: But that just goes to show like how close they are, how much they love each other, and how much they can read about each other, even though it might not be super obvious to everybody.
[Melanie]: There are moments in the show for sure where Bob gets visibly manic. [laughing]
[Melanie]: There's, like about Thanksgiving [laughing]
[Melanie]: He, so Bob is a chef at heart. [Josie]: ok.
[Melanie]: He loves, even though he cooks burgers all day, like, he loves cooking all types of food. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: So Thanksgiving is like his Super Bowl.
[Melanie]: Like he, [Josie]: Nice. [Melanie]: loves Thanksgiving. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: And there was one year where the family was like, we're going to go to this like turkey festival parade thing and we're not going to do Thanksgiving dinner.
[Melanie]: And he was like, okay, fine.
[Melanie]: Okay, fine. We just won't have Thanksgiving dinner.
[Melanie]: I won't cook for you while you guys are all off gallivanting, doing whatever.
[Melanie]: And so he stays home. He's like, no, this is great. This is great.
[Melanie]: He lounges on this couch watching TV.
[Melanie]: He's like, no, this is so good.
[Melanie]: I love this. This is great.
[Melanie]: [laughing] He ends up like going into the kitchen for like a snack or something.
[Melanie]: And then he opens the utensil drawer and sees the turkey baster. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: And he starts talking to the turkey baster. [Josie]: [lauging]
[Melanie]: He's like, "don't look at me like that!" [laughing]
[Melanie]: Like, I know what I'm doing. [laughing] And he starts like,
[Melanie]: "No, you're right turkey baster! I'm gonna go cook Thanksgiving dinner because I want to." So then he [laughing] [Josie]: Heck yeah!
[Melanie]: So then [laughing] he's like goes to the store right before it closes and gets a turkey. This is when he meets up of course with Linda and the kids.
[Melanie]: "What are you guys doing here?" oh, and Bob's like, end up cooking dinner, and they have dinner together and it's super sweet but like even in those moments
[Melanie]: Like Linda was helping him cook and all those things.
[Melanie]: She's like, she knew that's what he wanted to do.
[Josie]: Yeah. [Melanie]: So it was just really sweet.
[Melanie]: It's a really sweet moment. And I just love them so much.
[Melanie]: Like they're so chaotic, but they're so cute. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Melanie]: It's their entire family dynamic is they're so chaotic, but they're so cute. [Josie]: Yeah.
[Collin]: Um, in One Piece, there's this character, his name's Oden, and he has a wife named Toki.
[Collin]: How they meet is a little weird.
[Collin]: Pretty much he's out at sea with a pirate named Whitebeard, and then he finds this island, and there's Toki just laying on the beach stranded, and he thinks he's just like a stranded pirate.
[Collin]: Turns out she's a time traveler. [laughing]
[Josie]: Whoa. There's so much going on.
[Collin]: She's a time traveler. And we don't know where she's from.
[Collin]: She's left ambiguous on purpose.
[Collin]: But um, they accept a lot of this good dynamic of a good relationship. Because...uh,
[Collin]: despite Oden's chaotic lifestyle, he's a samurai, not only a samurai, like, kind of arrogant and all this other stuff, um. She consistently engages with him like even working with him um
[Collin]: and helping him cook his favorite meal, which is called Oden, after his name.
[Collin]: It's just boiled meats and vegetables. [laughing]
[Collin]: But he loves it, and Toki does that, and supports his ambitions to travel the world, be a pirate, [Josie]: Yeah. [Collin]: too.
[Collin]: And he puts all his trust into her, and prioritizes her.
[Josie]: Very cool. So this episode we learned about protective family, openness, and a family system affect intense sibling relationships and sharing in marriage,
[Josie]: and we hope that this has helped make the text a little more interesting and helped you gain a deeper understanding of the concepts in this chapter.
[Josie]: And if any of our shows has interested you guys, make sure that you go and check them out because they're really good.
[Melanie]: it's also really cool, this assignment, to see kind of how we can connect these concepts to something that we both like, love alot.
[Josie]: Yeah, it's so interesting because when you're watching a show, you're not thinking about the reasoning behind every decision someone is making.
[Josie]: But I feel like in real life, more often you think about, oh, this person said this because of this, or I'm doing this because of this.
[Josie]: So I think it's very cool to also translate that to more of a media, a media idea where you're like, oh, this is why this character is doing this kind of thing.
[Josie]: Yeah. [Josie]: Yeah...
[Melanie]: Next episode, we will be Natalie and Ava focusing on interpersonal relationships at work through the TV shows New Girl and Emily in Paris.
[Melanie]: It's going to be a really interesting one, so make sure you guys stay tuned.
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